为什么说Ruby好过Java

Sample of Gosling build script:
https://gosling.dev.java.net/source/browse/*checkout*/gosling/trunk/gosling/Gosling.java?content-type=text%2Fplain

实在没话说了。

评论

54 楼 aries211 2006-11-19  

讨论来讨论去，有意思没？
我觉得这种话题挺无聊的

53 楼 fxzeng 2006-10-29  

奇怪的问题,
奇怪的帖子,
;)

52 楼 cngump 2006-10-27  

少比较.多学习.

51 楼 totobacoo 2006-10-23  

没想到这个帖子会有这样的发展路线，真是无语……

50 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-23  

roseanne 写道

引用

ok,good, (as for) is a misusage here. The first (a) can be omitted, (begin with) should be ok. (guess out) is not quite often used, however infer is too formal.

No, that is not good. Do NOT PICK on someone's English or Chinese errors, as long as you understand what him/her is talking about. There is an exception for English teacher, he/she is allowed to be picky in his/her class/homework/etc, even that, but not when he/she is on the street.

Even native speakers make spelling/grammar mistakes all the time, let alone non-native speakers. Once I did do something like that, I found one of my students who made many misspellings, I tried to correct them. As a result, I found out he was a Iranian raised in French language environment. Haha!

Thanks

49 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-23  

roseanne 写道

cookoo 写道

Aha, I didn't know it was you.  Welcome here, Ranchgirl! (for CJSDN fame)

I understand what you talked about the status of boring job market. Well, even if you decided to live with IBM mainframes for the rest of your life, Ruby is still a good choice to have some fun.

Thanks cookoo! I am not any fame, but a regular person who makes mistakes regularly like GodLoveMe pointed out.

As to Ruby, if I assume that you guys are in high-school, then I have just barely got out kindergarten, I came here to learn. That is it.

If I ask elementary-school questions, please do not laugh at me... Of course, I will do my homework first.

Thanks!

Really kind of you to say so.

48 楼 roseanne 2006-10-23  

cookoo 写道

Aha, I didn't know it was you.  Welcome here, Ranchgirl! (for CJSDN fame)

I understand what you talked about the status of boring job market. Well, even if you decided to live with IBM mainframes for the rest of your life, Ruby is still a good choice to have some fun.

Thanks cookoo! I am not any fame, but a regular person who makes mistakes regularly like GodLoveMe pointed out.

As to Ruby, if I assume that you guys are in high-school, then I have just barely got out kindergarten, I came here to learn. That is it.

If I ask elementary-school questions, please do not laugh at me... Of course, I will do my homework first.

Thanks!

47 楼 roseanne 2006-10-23  

引用

ok,good, (as for) is a misusage here. The first (a) can be omitted, (begin with) should be ok. (guess out) is not quite often used, however infer is too formal.

No, that is not good. Do NOT PICK on someone's English or Chinese errors, as long as you understand what him/her is talking about. There is an exception for English teacher, he/she is allowed to be picky in his/her class/homework/etc, even that, but not when he/she is on the street.

Even native speakers make spelling/grammar mistakes all the time, let alone non-native speakers. Once I did do something like that, I found one of my students who made many misspellings, I tried to correct them. As a result, I found out he was a Iranian raised in French language environment. Haha!

46 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-22  

cookoo 写道

Godlikeme 写道

roseanne 写道

引用

这位的英文实在是。。。，至少时态搞得比较混乱。

Haha, One more attacker on my English, this is not new, and which only happened/happens on Chinese forums. Haha, what an interesting cultural phenomenon!!!!

Rarely see people in Chinese forums attack/correct wrong Chinese, there are a lot! Here is not an exception...

At least , no tense in chinese,hehe.
As for(as for + noun) English is a (missing) foreign language,we must begin with(by) understanding the syntax. however, A (missing) little error may cause confusion, while chinese (capitalize it) not, we can guess out(no such phrase...use infer) original meanings even with syntax error(s) (plural).
That's all, forgive my nonsense,please.

ok,good,  (as for) is a misusage here. The first (a) can be omitted, (begin with) should be ok. (guess out) is not quite often used, however infer is too formal.

45 楼 cookoo 2006-10-22  

roseanne 写道

Here is a comparison in the job market
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Java+programmer%2C+C%2B%2B+programmer%2C+COBOL+programmer%2C+Ruby+programmer

Java programmer, C++ programmer, COBOL programmer, Ruby programmer Job Trends

If you like, you can add FORTRAN/Perl programmer too.

Try them!!!

Aha, I didn't know it was you.  Welcome here, Ranchgirl! (for CJSDN fame)

I understand what you talked about the status of boring job market. Well, even if you decided to live with IBM mainframes for the rest of your life, Ruby is still a good choice to have some fun.

44 楼 cookoo 2006-10-22  

Godlikeme 写道

roseanne 写道

引用

这位的英文实在是。。。，至少时态搞得比较混乱。

Haha, One more attacker on my English, this is not new, and which only happened/happens on Chinese forums. Haha, what an interesting cultural phenomenon!!!!

Rarely see people in Chinese forums attack/correct wrong Chinese, there are a lot! Here is not an exception...

At least , no tense in chinese,hehe.
As for(as for + noun) English is a (missing) foreign language,we must begin with(by) understanding the syntax. however, A (missing) little error may cause confusion, while chinese (capitalize it) not, we can guess out(no such phrase...use infer) original meanings even with syntax error(s) (plural).
That's all, forgive my nonsense,please.

43 楼 charon 2006-10-22  

花花公子 写道

maven就算了吧，只能作为ruby比java优秀的另一佐证，严重违背KISS原则。

从代码实现的角度来说，任何一款非量身定制的软件/工具都严重违反了KISS原则。RAILS同样也是。
从使用者的角度来说，那就只是品味问题。maven2在某种意义，是最贴近rails哲学的一个工具。遵循它的惯例，你就不需要写任何非定制的build脚本。唯一要做的就是指定依赖。
放下有色眼镜，看到的世界自然会精彩得多.

42 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-22  

roseanne 写道

引用

这位的英文实在是。。。，至少时态搞得比较混乱。

Haha, One more attacker on my English, this is not new, and which only happened/happens on Chinese forums. Haha, what an interesting cultural phenomenon!!!!

Rarely see people in Chinese forums attack/correct wrong Chinese, there are a lot! Here is not an exception...

At least , no tense in chinese,hehe.
As for English is foreign language,we must begin with understanding the syntax. however, little error may cause confusion, while chinese not, we can guess out original meanings even with syntax error.
That's all, forgive my nonsense,please.

41 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-22  

roseanne 写道

引用

这位的英文实在是。。。，至少时态搞得比较混乱。

Haha, One more attacker on my English, this is not new, and which only happened/happens on Chinese forums. Haha, what an interesting cultural phenomenon!!!!

Rarely see people in Chinese forums attack/correct wrong Chinese, there are a lot! Here is not an exception...

40 楼 roseanne 2006-10-22  

[url]http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000382.html [/url]



Good article and many good responses too.

Thanks, Godlikeme!!!

39 楼 ajoo 2006-10-22  

roseanne 写道

引用

这位的英文实在是。。。，至少时态搞得比较混乱。

Haha, One more attacker on my English, this is not new, and which only happened/happens on Chinese forums. Haha, what an interesting cultural phenomenon!!!!

Rarely see people in Chinese forums attack/correct wrong Chinese, there are a lot! Here is not an exception...

嗯，很有强人的潜力．加油！

38 楼 roseanne 2006-10-22  

引用

这位的英文实在是。。。，至少时态搞得比较混乱。

Haha, One more attacker on my English, this is not new, and which only happened/happens on Chinese forums. Haha, what an interesting cultural phenomenon!!!!

Rarely see people in Chinese forums attack/correct wrong Chinese, there are a lot! Here is not an exception...

37 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-22  

http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000382.html
这篇文章 ，大家有兴趣看看。我翻译其中的一段吧：
Again, and at the risk of repeating myself:  I love Ruby.  I truly do.  It's one of the few languages that I have studied these past years that made me go "Yeah!" whenever I read about a feature I didn't know of yet.  I find its syntax and concepts extremely elegant and powerful at the same time.  I don't like everything about it, of course, but Ruby is by far the number two language in my toolbox behind Java, with number three far, far behind.  But it's a complex language that contains a lot of advanced idioms which will be very hard for PHP and Visual Basic programmers to absorb.

Admittedly, PHP and Visual Basic are cheap targets (we're talking about languages that don't even have name spaces!), but like it or not, they are the Web standard.  Anyone who wants to succeed in the Web arena must have a compelling story to tell to these programmers, something that will convince them to switch to Rails on technical grounds but that will also be an easy sell to their management.  Rails can't succeed without these two conditions, and I am predicting that Ruby -- and Ruby on Rails -- will always remain a tough sell to any organization that contains more than ten people.

再一次，冒险重复下自己吧：我爱Ruby,真的。是我多年来学习的中，能够让我每当读到一个还未了解的特性就认同的为数不多的语言之一。她的语法和概念是那么的优雅，同时又是那么的强大。当然，并不是Ruby所有的东西我都喜欢，但是目前，Ruby 在我的工具箱中次于java，排名第二，第三名则与他相距甚远。
Ruby是一门复杂的语言，她具有的很多高级的语言特性是PHP和VB程序员很难理解的。

诚然，PHP和VB既定目标不是那么远大（我们在讨论甚至连名字空间都没有的语言），但无论喜不喜欢，他们是web 标准。谁想在web领域成功，那就的有足够说服力、动听的故事，来说服这些程序员，让他们转到Rails技术背景，如果这样那也会很容易兜售给他们的管理者。这两个目的不达到，Rails很难成功。我猜测，Ruby和Ruby on rails 还是很难兜售给那些超过10个人的团体。

Ruby on Rails itself.

Ruby on Rails is just too advanced.  I'm serious.  It has an incredible amount of slick features involving a lot of magic (both Ruby-related and invented by David himself).  For talented developers, these features are a dream come true...  autowiring of the MVC, scaffolding, defaults over configuration, unit tests (even integration tests now, nice!), you name it.  David hit every single pain point that Web developers (regular developers even) have been facing these past years.  Ruby on Rails in itself is a great example of how to nicely package what we have learned about software development these past five years.

But it's still a very wide gap for corporate developers to cross.  Sometimes, too much magic is too much magic, and it can definitely be the case that the flow of code is too direct or too clever to be understandable by regular developers.  Developers were able to do the jump from imperative to object-oriented programming, but it was a hard fight.  I don't believe the Web world will ever be ready to embrace the Rails cleverness.

认真地说，Ruby on Rails实在太高级了。她拥有太多的灵活特性，包括很多"magic"(Ruby相关的和David自己搞的)。对于天才开发人员，这些"magic"是梦想成真...。自动编织 MVC、脚手架、默认配置、单元测试（甚至于集成测试，没的说！）、凡你想得出的。David搞定了 WEB开发人员（甚至于regular开发人员）这些年来面对的每一个难点。Ruby on rails本身就是一个绝佳的例子，她展示了如何优雅的打包我们过去五年所学的软件开发。

可是，对于团体开发人员们来说，仍然有很一道鸿沟需要跨越。有时，太多的"magic"就是太多的魔法，可以肯定的是，代码的流太直接或者说太巧妙是regular开发人员没法理解的。开发人员能够实现面向过程到面向对象编程的跨越，不过也够难的了。我相信web世界还没有为Rails的灵活做好准备。

36 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-22  

gigix 写道

Godlikeme 写道

写好了就放在用好了，有什么好改的，里面又没什么复杂的业务逻辑。

项目一开始只有几个简单的测试，然后测试越来越多，然后有了functional test suite，然后有了performance test suite，然后要打包发布……半年都不改？莫非这个项目半年做的事情都那么类似？

说半年不改有点过分哦，可即便天天改，又能怎么样呢，不明白有什么就那么难改。

35 楼 Godlikeme 2006-10-22  

roseanne 写道

I was a C/C++ developer for a long time, developed in Java for many recent years, then spend a month to review my C/C++, and got a C/C++/Java conjunction/communication contract for 5 months, now I got a new job 3 months ago, and developed in Ruby and Ruby on Rails for two months, now I am back in C++.

I don't like my current job too much, tried to find a new job doing Ruby.

However, there is almost no Ruby jobs available, but tons of Java jobs. I might go back to do J2ME conjunction with C++, and wap.

Languages are just tools to get the job done!

Fighting for which one is better to death, that is the most stupid thing you could do on earth.

COBOL was born in 1950's and COBOL is still very much alive in the US. Believe me or not, COBOL programmers are paid very good in the US, because it is hard to find good ones.


哈哈，物以稀为贵！！！

这位的英文实在是。。。，至少时态搞得比较混乱。

首先明确一点，我们不是搞开发语言的，只是做软件的。不觉得讨论开发语言本身对我们具有多大的意义。

做软件最大的问题来自于业务需求，对业务领域抽象、建模，把这些搞清楚不是任何工具能够替代的，，做系统往往会发现一些实现代码非常复杂，这些并不是由语言本身的特性所决定的，而是业务需求。COBOL这种老掉牙的语言依然能够活得好好的就是一个例证，那些银行核心系统复杂的数据处理逻辑用JAVA作也好不到哪里去。这块别跟我较真了，非要比COBOL我没话说。
再有就是软件的可测试性、可维护性等。谁都不知道一段代码会用多久，千年虫就是例子。代码是要被数人改千遍读万遍的，这和语言本身的关系有多大呢？ 我觉得没多大关系，主要还是得依靠项目管理，和开发人员的水平。
从汇编、C、C++、MATLAB、C#、JAVA、一路学下来，给我的感触就是这样。现在用JAVA无非是混口饭吃，说不上哪天就上大机做COBOL了。
废话不多说，真正搞精通一门语言就不容易了，非要争个好坏的没什么意义。